May 30, 2012 at 11:57 pm #204jillMEnzParticipant
Does anyone else find that the absolute fatigue is completely exacerbated by doing anything with your arms above your head? I am trying to paint my house and find if I’m doing anything where my arms are above my head , I’ll end up a cot case as a result. i always found hanging out washing did the same thing, so now don’t do it – just have racks. I’m wondering now if somehow we cut off circulation or do something else involving the jugular veins?
best JillMay 31, 2012 at 12:01 pm #2259PalominoMorganParticipant
Research Thoracic Outlet Sybdrome. Fatigue when arms are above your head is a classic symptom.May 31, 2012 at 12:47 pm #2264ourfullhouseParticipant
In POTS patients raising arms also increases our tachycardia, and tachycardia can make you fatigued for sure! Do you have POTS and/or have you noticed your heart rate increasing when your arms are up?May 31, 2012 at 4:26 pm #2270jillMEnzParticipant
Ourfullhouse – I suspect I have POTs. My diagnosis up til now has been ME/CFS. THere is no-one – cardiologist – here in NZ who gives a rats about POTs. I saw Peter Rowe from JHU at an ME conference and he diagnosed me as EDS in the corridor of the conference! I’v now found out we have a genetistist in Auckland who is interested in EDS – so hv an appointment in 6 mths. They say they can’t do the testing – but can go off clinical signs. I know I have it, but this way hopefully I’ll get int to the system for ongoing monitoring
Palamenomorgan – thank you for the suggestion – I will need to look that up further. So far I don’t think I have that – but who knows. I’v just passed the info on to a friend who is disabled by something that sounds like TOS – so thank you indeed.June 1, 2012 at 3:26 pm #2284-ACK-Participant
man, i thought that was normal! even changing light bulbs is horribleJune 1, 2012 at 4:11 pm #2285
Hi Potsie Friends 🙂
I just posted about “Senobi Breathing” over on the post about gaining weight. Studies have shown Senobi breathing, which involves raising hands above the head, can up-regulate sympathetic nerve activity and increase concentrations of catecholamines after one minute in some people. I wonder if we are releasing too many catecholamines when we keep our hands up too long especially if we are looking up… it would be like doing extended episodes of Senobi Breathing. It is interesting that Senobi breathing had these increased concentrations of catecholamine effects in the Obese and DEPRESSED (OWD) group immediately after the breathing but not the “healthy” group but the relative sympathetic activity during the day is HIGHER in the healthy group. This is exciting! The OWD group’s “sympathetic nerve activity and hormone levels” recovered in 30 DAYS!!!!!! I think this fits in with Dr. Diana’s theory…VAGUS nerve, sound familiar anyone? Do you have any time for a new trial, Dr. Diana? 😉
“After one minute of SBE, significant up-regulation of sympathetic nerve activity and increased concentrations of catecholamines, estradiol, and growth hormone were observed in OWD (depressed) group.”
“Twenty were healthy, and the other 20 were obese (body mass index > 25 and body fat > 30%) and in a depressive state (OWD). Sympathetic nerve activity determined by analyzing heart rate variability, and the hormone levels in the urine were investigated before and 30 min after one minute of SBE. The relative proportion of sympathetic nerve activity among healthy women in the daytime was 79.2 ± 2.3%, whereas that in OWD group was 30.4 ± 1.9%. After one minute of SBE, significant up-regulation of sympathetic nerve activity and increased concentrations of catecholamines, estradiol, and growth hormone (all P values < 0.001) were observed in OWD group. After 30 days of SBE, the sympathetic nerve activity and hormone levels had recovered in OWD group, and the depressive state, as evaluated by the Hamilton Depression Scale, had ameliorated. The "Senobi" breathing exercise was found to be effective for amelioration of depression in obese women possibly through up-regulation of sympathetic nerve activity and hormone secretion." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20834183
"After 1 min of the "Senobi" breathing, substantial up-regulation of sympathetic nerve activity and increased urinary hormone secretion were observed in the overweight women but not in the healthy controls. Moreover, after repeating the exercise for a month, the obese patients showed significant loss of body fat. The "Senobi" breathing exercise was found to be effective for weight loss in obesity possibly by regulating the autonomic nervous system and the hormone secretion."
“Senobi” stretch ameliorates asthma symptoms by restoring autonomic nervous system balance.”
"We recommend the patients engage in the "Senobi" stretch exercise, which involves stretching the arms and body upward while standing. After 1 month of regularly performing this exercise, most patients showed a decrease in the frequency of asthma rescue medication use. They also showed a recovery of forced expiratory volume in 1 second. These results suggest that the Senobi stretch is a useful exercise for asthmatic patients to perform to achieve a desirable improvement in symptoms."
SENOBI BREATHING. (You can do this SITTING down too, my Potsie, friends!)
We are in a vicious cycle... we are dizzy so we stop raising our hands above our heads because it makes us dizzier. I wonder if Senobi Breathing might help reverse that cycle?
I'm going to try doing this 3 times a day. (sitting to start) I mean... I've got 3 minutes a day to spare! 🙂
My best, SweetFeatherJune 1, 2012 at 5:24 pm #2288PalominoMorganParticipant
Let me know how it goes. I can’t hold my arms over my head for 3 minutes. I have bilateral thoracic outlet syndrome. Any potential benefit for me would be offset by the impact on my neck, back, etc. to those more able bodied… have at it. I sues my martial arts training to control pain but that just involves breathing. Also, there is a negative effect if you do too much. The vavulsa like nature of it would set my head on fire though.June 1, 2012 at 5:58 pm #2289
I’m sorry I wasn’t clear about the timing! From what I read, the breathing is for only one minute at a time but three times a day. I haven’t found a Senobi expert though. This is from what I gathered on the net. I read there are variations sitting, standing, with arms up but fingers not touching, and with arms up and fingers intertwined with palms facing upward and with breaths from the abdomen and breaths from the thorax. If anyone finds a good You Tube video, please let me know. The ones I saw were yoga breathing and similar but not the Japanese Senobi Breathing.
I’m starting slow… doing it sitting and after my mcad meds are onboard. I’m not an easy “shocker” but if I was, I’d have asked my doctor about it first. I would be scared to do it at all with your condition without checking with the doctor, PalominoMorgan. I am so sorry you have that extra syndrome on top of everything else. It always amazes me how alike and yet so different our symptoms can be even within our own families. It is a good reminder that even with something like BREATHING, we need to be cautious adding anything new and it is best to check with our docs first!
My best, SweetFeatherJune 4, 2012 at 9:38 pm #2340DanielleParticipant
I am new to the site. In fact, I googled “whole body fatigue from lifting arms” and found this. I got mono 10 years ago, and never fully recovered. My symptoms have changed a bit over time, but the most consistent is that I cannot put my arms over my head at all without completely crashing (usually within a few hours and lasting for at least a day or so). I don’t quite seem to fit the mold for POTS or chronic fatigue or any autoimmune disorder, but I’m going to try to find some more answers. I’ve been to many doctors and no one has been able to diagnose me. When I crash, I also have runny, sneezy nose (anyone else?) I’d be happy to share more symptoms (I’ve been tracking this for 10 years now), if that’s helpful to anyone else. I’d love to hear thoughts!!!June 5, 2012 at 11:01 am #2342
Danielle, have you had a tilt-table? If not, you could do a poor man’s tilt-table or get a heart rate watch with a chest strap or a Digifit Connect 2 for iphone, ipad, or itouch. Have you tried NasalCrom when your nose gets runny? Have your doctors checked your plasma catecholamines lying down and standing? What are your other symptoms when you crash? Do you have to urinate a lot after your “crash”? Does your crash sound like an episode of mast cell degranulation?June 5, 2012 at 3:30 pm #2345DanielleParticipant
Last night I had my husband (an RN) do the poor man’s tilt-table with me. I rested for 10 min and by heart rate was around 72-74. Then I stood up. I only made it to 9 minutes standing very still before I was having trouble catching my breath and my chest hurt, then I felt like passing out, so I quickly got back in bed. My husband said I had hit 104 beats per minute. I never thought I had lightheadedness, but realized I usually compensate by moving around. Also, I do get dizzy when I squat down and stand up. Maybe POTS does fit my symptoms. I have a dr. appt this week to explore more.
As for the runny nose, I take nothing. I try not to take meds if I can help it (and especially now as I’m expecting). I do have a prescription for Flonase from a previous doctor.
Can you tell me more about plasma catecholamines? What would those numbers tell me?
As for other symptoms, I haven’t noticed an increase in urination, but I am a bit more irritable especially with repetitive noises or movements. Lack of motivation comes with this along with feeling full high in my stomach and hungry at the same time. I have another type of crash that doesn’t have full body fatigue, (so not usually related to moving my arms above my head) but instead a bad headache with nausea, light sensitivity, noise sensitivity and neck pain. I always have low level neck pain, but with these episodes, I feel more tender. I often have to throw up (can’t be induced) before the pressure will subside and my symptoms release.
I don’t know very much about episodes of mast cell degranulation? But I do have sensitivities to perfumes, lotions, cleaning supplies, candles and dust, which would be increases when I’m already “down.”
Thank you so much for walking this journey with me. I look forward to more suggestions!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.